A Conversation With Connor – Part 2
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
The following is a conversation I had with a convert friend of mine in April, 2016. I thought it would be of general benefit to my readers. I have done some very light editing but otherwise left the conversation as it is. My friend’s name has been changed to protect his anonymity. See Part 1 here.
[11:08:33 PM] The Muslim Theist: so all of this comes back to philosophical debates that have been raging for centuries
[11:08:37 PM] Connor: ahhh it makes sense
[11:08:41 PM] The Muslim Theist: and right now it’s split modern atheism into two
[11:08:47 PM] The Muslim Theist: or new atheism i should say
[11:08:49 PM] The Muslim Theist: pop atheism
[11:09:01 PM] Connor: so which group ar eyou trying to target? modernists?
[11:09:02 PM] The Muslim Theist: the ones who are leaning post modern and the ones still in the modern age
[11:09:12 PM] The Muslim Theist: modernists are easier because they believe in truth
[11:09:20 PM] The Muslim Theist: so i can argue using logic and science that God exists
[11:09:35 PM] The Muslim Theist: post modernists are more difficult because they subconsciously think there is no truth, so how do you even argue with them?
[11:09:50 PM] The Muslim Theist: i think there are two methods with the post modernists
[11:10:22 PM] The Muslim Theist: 1. use spirituality. Since they accept the reality of subjective experience, through spirituality you can show them how the subject and the object unite
[11:10:44 PM] The Muslim Theist: spiritual experiences are not subjective btw, they are actually the union of the subject and the object. It’s when subjective and objective reality meet face to face
[11:11:04 PM] Connor: thats really interesting
[11:11:07 PM] The Muslim Theist: and that’s why you taste Allah and know Him intimately because literally barriers are removed
[11:11:23 PM] The Muslim Theist: so we can use that to appeal to them, basically make the argument that Islam is an experience to die for (pun intended)
[11:11:27 PM] The Muslim Theist: you just HAVE to try it out!
[11:11:48 PM] Connor: hahaha
[11:11:51 PM] Connor: billy mays here
[11:11:59 PM] The Muslim Theist: and we can use the spiritual principles of Islam which allow one to gain control over the nafs and talk about how to overcome their passions etc.
[11:12:30 PM] The Muslim Theist: which appeals to people in this age because everyone feels enslaved to themselves, to their surrounding (most people have a dead end job that they hate), etc.
[11:12:55 PM] The Muslim Theist: the second method is to convince them that reason works. The easiest way to do that is to ask them if math is subjective, if for example, its a subjective opinion that the earth is round vs flat
[11:13:00 PM] Connor: right
[11:13:08 PM] The Muslim Theist: and using that establish the reliability of reason
[11:13:19 PM] The Muslim Theist: for those super philosophically minded you can show the contradiction of saying that there is no truth
[11:13:29 PM] The Muslim Theist: while at the same time asserting that to be the absolute truth
[11:13:52 PM] The Muslim Theist: “the truth is there is no truth” Okay so if there is no truth, then what you just said there is also false, which means there is a truth after all
[11:13:59 PM] The Muslim Theist: it’s an absurdity
[11:15:16 PM] Connor: its also a paradox
[11:15:25 PM] The Muslim Theist: but generally speaking, remember, most people have a mix of modern and post modern beliefs
[11:15:38 PM] The Muslim Theist: for example, outside of academia, no average joe denies the validity of science
[11:15:42 PM] The Muslim Theist: even if they are a blue haired feminist
[11:15:59 PM] The Muslim Theist: oh yeah i wanted to tell you about how third wave feminism emerged from post modernism
[11:15:59 PM] Connor: its actually similar to this theorem in logic and math that there is atleast one unprovable truth
[11:16:09 PM] The Muslim Theist: so basically the entire idea of feminism is this
[11:16:25 PM] The Muslim Theist: those who believe in Reason and Science in ages past made very simple observations about the nature of men and the nature of women
[11:16:41 PM] The Muslim Theist: remember, they belief in truth, which necessarily entails understanding Forms
[11:16:50 PM] The Muslim Theist: meaning there is a Form of Man – the way men are, male nature
[11:17:02 PM] The Muslim Theist: just like there is a way that Triangles are
[11:17:10 PM] Connor: right
[11:17:35 PM] The Muslim Theist: and while each triangle in this world is different (for example, none have perfectly straight lines if you used a microscope powerful enough), but yet they are all the same in as far as they are triangles
[11:17:39 PM] The Muslim Theist: same thing with Men
[11:17:42 PM] The Muslim Theist: then there is the form of Woman
[11:17:51 PM] The Muslim Theist: and then there is the form of Humanity which includes both men and women
[11:18:02 PM] The Muslim Theist: so human beings are a certain way – ALL of us
[11:18:05 PM] The Muslim Theist: Men are a certain way
[11:18:10 PM] The Muslim Theist: (all men)
[11:18:14 PM] The Muslim Theist: and all women are a certain way
[11:18:25 PM] Connor: i see where your going with this
[11:19:34 PM] The Muslim Theist: and when you accept that and focus on the commonalities between all men or between all women (instead of the differences between individuals, afterall, you and I are both men, but I am not you and you are not me. We can either focus on our commonalities or our differences. What makes us common, Aristotle called our Genus and what makes us different, Aristotle called our Differentia)
[11:20:11 PM] The Muslim Theist: When you focus on the commonalities, you see that there are certain truths about the Form of Men and any man who does not manifest certain aspects of this form is de-formed
[11:20:16 PM] The Muslim Theist: there is a truth, a standard by which Men should be
[11:20:25 PM] The Muslim Theist: and you can be closer or farther away from that
[11:20:46 PM] The Muslim Theist: and being closer to it is praise worthy and being farther is blameworthy
[11:20:53 PM] The Muslim Theist: these are all philosophical backdrops
To be continued…stay tuned for Part 3.
