A Conversation with Connor – Part 1
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم
The following is a conversation I had with a convert friend of mine in April, 2016. I thought it would be of general benefit to my readers. I have done some very light editing but otherwise left the conversation as it is. My friend’s name has been changed to protect his anonymity.
[10:46:58 PM] The Muslim Theist: But yeah there’s a lot of work ahead of us Connor
[10:47:10 PM] The Muslim Theist: but if Roosh could build a movement in only 10 short years using a simple blog
[10:47:34 PM] The Muslim Theist: then with the help of Allah we can do much better and establish the Truth
[10:47:52 PM] Connor: your right think about how crazy big the manosphere got
[10:48:07 PM] The Muslim Theist: not just that but they’re influencing popular culture
[10:48:18 PM] The Muslim Theist: the words “alpha male” and “beta male” have now entered into the popular vernacular
[10:48:28 PM] The Muslim Theist: which means everyday people now have a general idea of what those things are, whereas before they didn’t
[10:48:53 PM] The Muslim Theist: and so now all the guys have a general idea of what girls find attractive, and girls are more open with what they find attractive whereas only a generation ago things were much different
[10:49:11 PM] The Muslim Theist: they’re going to continue to grow
[10:49:24 PM] The Muslim Theist: also a new development that I’ve noticed is that new atheism has split into two factions
[10:49:43 PM] The Muslim Theist: one faction are the leftist blue haired cis-gendered post-modern feminists
[10:49:55 PM] Connor: hahah i still rmemeber that one guy who was one of the first influential PUA and usedto dress all weird and purple
[10:49:57 PM] The Muslim Theist: and one faction are the Richard Dawkins “For Science!” guys who are increasingly getting drawn into the manosphere
[10:50:34 PM] The Muslim Theist: this represents a current split in philosophy in the West where certain philosophy deparments lean to realism and analytic philosophy and certain departments hold postmodern and continental views
[10:50:56 PM] The Muslim Theist: so the war that’s been raging on in philosophy departments for generations in the West has come to the popular level
[10:51:11 PM] Connor: whats postmodern?
[10:51:26 PM] The Muslim Theist: it’s a time period and trend of thought
[10:51:28 PM] The Muslim Theist: that we’re currently in
[10:51:28 PM] Connor: feminists?
[10:51:36 PM] The Muslim Theist: so modern philosophy was the Age of Reason
[10:51:46 PM] The Muslim Theist: where people were like “for science! Logic! Reason! Being rational!”
[10:52:00 PM] Connor: for science!
[10:52:20 PM] The Muslim Theist: the problem is that western philosophers were unable to solve a whole bunch of epistemological problems when they abandoned religion and scholastic philosophy
[10:52:47 PM] The Muslim Theist: so using Reason (which they understood to be independent/devoid of God)
[10:53:02 PM] The Muslim Theist: they found out that they can’t arrive at any truth
[10:53:30 PM] The Muslim Theist: they can’t even justify the existence of an external world
[10:53:34 PM] The Muslim Theist: let alone science
[10:53:41 PM] The Muslim Theist: let alone anything
[10:53:52 PM] The Muslim Theist: so the logical conclusion is like a kind of solipsism
[10:54:03 PM] The Muslim Theist: so what post-modernism is
[10:54:10 PM] The Muslim Theist: is basically like “okay there is no truth, what now?”
[10:54:23 PM] The Muslim Theist: and so they are all like “well it’s all about how i feel”
[10:54:26 PM] The Muslim Theist: there is no reality
[10:54:29 PM] The Muslim Theist: the only reality is my reality
[10:54:33 PM] The Muslim Theist: my subjective experience
[10:54:47 PM] The Muslim Theist: everything is a social construct
[10:54:48 PM] Connor: hmmm I think most Richard Dawkins/Sam harris types are into post modern philosophy and whatever “sounds” logical on a shallow level
[10:54:53 PM] The Muslim Theist: based on the human will
[10:55:00 PM] The Muslim Theist: no
[10:55:08 PM] The Muslim Theist: Dawkins and Harris are still in the Modern Age
[10:55:19 PM] The Muslim Theist: they believe in Reason and Science
[10:55:24 PM] The Muslim Theist: and on this basis they reject religion
[10:55:31 PM] The Muslim Theist: they don’t say “there is no truth, and hence religion is false”
[10:55:39 PM] Connor: ah good point
[10:55:41 PM] The Muslim Theist: they say “there is a truth, and it’s not religion”
[10:55:57 PM] Connor: okay i see what your saying
[10:56:21 PM] The Muslim Theist: it’s true that they start off from the same point as post-modernists which is to say that you should be skeptical of everything
[10:56:27 PM] The Muslim Theist: i think that’s where your confusion lies
[10:56:57 PM] The Muslim Theist: so for example, Dawkins/harris, or the Modern age atheism will say look we shouldn’t believe anything unless we have justification for it
[10:57:19 PM] The Muslim Theist: and they add that science and logic IS justification
[10:57:28 PM] The Muslim Theist: post modernists will say that we should be skeptical of everything
[10:57:36 PM] The Muslim Theist: then they will add that science and logic IS itself not justified
[10:57:42 PM] The Muslim Theist: and we shouldn’t believe it
[10:58:08 PM] The Muslim Theist: OR post modernists will say that reason is incapable of justifying anything. So while they accept reason itself, they basically say you can’t prove anything using it
[10:58:21 PM] Connor: ah okay i see
[10:58:58 PM] Connor: i don’t think there are many post-modernists outside of academia then
[10:58:59 PM] The Muslim Theist: so post modernists are MUCH WORSE than modernists. Because at least the Modernists accept that TRUTH does exist and we can prove it
[10:59:15 PM] The Muslim Theist: No, actually, the entirety of third wave feminists is based on post modernism
[10:59:26 PM] Connor: think about the horrible world-view you would have
[10:59:27 PM] The Muslim Theist: and many ideas that people have, especially in Canada, are post modernist
[10:59:35 PM] The Muslim Theist: but most people have a MIX of both of the above
[10:59:44 PM] The Muslim Theist: the question is how much you lean one way or another
[10:59:48 PM] Connor: holding two contradictory ideas simultaneously in your head
[11:00:10 PM] Connor: that the world exists but a lot not really
[11:00:21 PM] The Muslim Theist: Okay i will show you right now how many people have post modernist tendencies and views, perhaps without even realizing it
[11:00:37 PM] The Muslim Theist: how many times have you heard the phrase “well everyone has their own opinion”
[11:00:45 PM] Connor: right
[11:00:47 PM] The Muslim Theist: the subconscious belief behind that is
[11:01:01 PM] Connor: but thats just people who don’t want to defend their opinions lol
[11:01:27 PM] The Muslim Theist: “well there is no truth, and therefore all of what we’re saying is purely subjective, and hence it doesn’t matter what view we each express because either way nobody can really know and it’s just a question of taste/fancy/subjective experiences growing up/social construction etc.”
[11:01:34 PM] The Muslim Theist: that’s the translation behind that little platittude
[11:01:39 PM] The Muslim Theist: platitude
[11:02:28 PM] The Muslim Theist: Well sometimes that might be the case, but a lot of the time it’s because they really believe that no opinion is defensible in an objective sense
[11:02:32 PM] Connor: right
[11:02:36 PM] The Muslim Theist: Like anything you say is just based on your experience
[11:02:46 PM] The Muslim Theist: and it holds no value in terms of actual reality that other people must conform to
[11:03:15 PM] Connor: it’s like people who say “everything’s relative”
[11:03:21 PM] The Muslim Theist: Whereas the modernists believe in truth..I can express an opinion and be right or wrong about it, objectively speaking, and people who disagree with me are flat out WRONG. They have WRONG ideas and must change
[11:03:30 PM] The Muslim Theist: for many people such an aggressive attitude is shocking
[11:03:45 PM] The Muslim Theist: yeah exactly
[11:03:47 PM] The Muslim Theist: everything’s relative
[11:03:59 PM] The Muslim Theist: the entire idea of multiculturalism and respecting other people’s values
[11:04:01 PM] The Muslim Theist: is based on post modernism
[11:04:23 PM] The Muslim Theist: (islam has it’s own idea of multiculturalism and respecting other people’s values on its own basis)
[11:04:29 PM] Connor: really? thats very interesting
[11:04:36 PM] The Muslim Theist: i didn’t phrase that right
[11:05:10 PM] The Muslim Theist: the entire idea IN THE CONTEMPORARY WEST of multiculturalism is based on the idea that no one culture is superior to any other; the reason being is because there is no truth and everything is a social construct/socially relative
[11:05:39 PM] The Muslim Theist: but other societies, like islam have an idea of multiculturalism based on Tawhid
[11:05:43 PM] The Muslim Theist: and belief in God
[11:06:02 PM] The Muslim Theist: but they are different concepts when they are practically implemented
[11:06:08 PM] The Muslim Theist: like there are differences
[11:06:09 PM] Connor: hmm i think most people believe in multiculturalism because its the best way to arrive at social cohesion
[11:06:12 PM] The Muslim Theist: in the general attitude
[11:06:22 PM] Connor: when you don’t have a single monolithic culture
[11:06:46 PM] Connor: but its interesting to see the philosophy behind it
[11:06:52 PM] The Muslim Theist: That’s definitely a factor, but you could also insist that, for example, all immigrants conform to Canadian values
[11:06:57 PM] The Muslim Theist: as many Modernists believe
[11:07:03 PM] The Muslim Theist: why? Because they believe in truth
[11:07:11 PM] The Muslim Theist: and the truth is that Western values are superior to all other cultures
[11:07:22 PM] The Muslim Theist: and so anyone coming here from another culture must change and fit their standard
[11:07:31 PM] The Muslim Theist: that’s the line of thinking that these right wingers have
[11:08:02 PM] The Muslim Theist: but it’s logical if you believe in truth and you think that the modern West is the greatest because of its technological advancements, bureaucracy and organization, democracy, etc.
[11:08:02 PM] Connor: right
To be continued…stay tuned for Part 2.
